Thor’s Jaimie Alexander On Wonder Woman: It’s Embarrassing For Me As A …
January 11, 2013 by admin
Filed under Choosing Lingerie
Great Hera!
by Jill Pantozzi | 2:03 pm, January 10th, 2013
Thor star Jaimie Alexander’s name is one that pops up frequently on dream casting for Wonder Woman, and if you saw her kicking butt as Sif, you know why. But while the actress herself would love to play Diana, she’s not sure she actually would if asked. Why? Well because no one treats Wonder Woman with respect, of course. Click ahead to see the awesome truths Alexander laid down recently about women in superhero properties.
Alexander was interviewed by MTV News about comic book roles in both the Marvel and DC realms.
“I used to be,” Alexander replied when asked if she’d be into playing DC Comics’ Wonder Woman, “and then I’ve seen how many failed attempts they’ve tried to make at re-making it and it’s embarrassing for me as a woman, seeing what they did with that TV show.” She was quick to add, ”It had nothing to do with that amazing actress Adrianne Palicki.”
She’s referencing of course the failed David E. Kelley Wonder Woman pilot for NBC which the creator himself recently said he’d still try to pursue in some fashion if The CW’s Amazon series doesn’t work out. “We made mistakes with ours. My only regret is we were never given a chance to correct them. We had a lot that was right about it and a great cast. In time, we could have fixed what we had done wrong, we just didn’t get that chance,” he said.
“Let’s talk about this for a second,” Alexander told MTV, “you’ve got very few female superheroes that are dominating films these days, unless they’re in a skin tight outfit and their boobs are pushed up to their chin, you know? And it’s not okay. It’s not.”
Moviegoers may recall a highly-capable, fully-clothed and armored Sif in Thor. I wonder how much of that was at Alexander’s insistence?
“There needs to be a positive role model,” she continued. “If you’re going to make Wonder Woman, make it like The Bourne Supremecy, you know. Let’s do something awesome like that. Like Alias was a fantastic show. Why can’t we do that? Why does she have to be in hot pants and spandex and all this stuff? And yeah, I get it, it’s visually stunning for, you know, half of the people, but at least make her grow a pair! I mean, I’m serious, ok. All she does is sit and eat ice cream while she’s crying over a boy. I know that never aired, but that’s what the script said and I was like, ‘What?!’”
“What?!” was the general consensus on Kelley’s Wonder Woman and while many are thankful it didn’t get a series order, it was disappointing to see the character fail because she wasn’t handled well. We may talk about these issues all the time but it’s nice hearing someone of Alexander’s status echoing our sentiments for a larger audience to hear. With her very valid issues in mind, would the actress play anyone besides Sif?
“I’m too old to play X-23. I’ve been told 100 times. It’s okay! I get it,” she said when asked about other heroines she’d want to play. “I always wanted to play Jubilee but missed that one too, I’m not a teenager anymore.”
Perhaps we can suggest other comic book characters for her to play but in the meantime, you can catch Alexander reprising the role of Sif in Thor: The Dark World come November.
(via MTV, image by Sue Schneider_MGP Agency)
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How about Barda? She’s a character who can stand up to Wonder Woman on an equal footing, power wise, and I’m pretty sure has never once pined over Scot Free. As I recall, she pretty much just told him what the deal was.
Or Jessica Drew, if she wants the more spy / investigator kind of thing.
I think those comments just made me a fan of hers.
“Let’s talk about this for a second,” Alexander told MTV, “you’ve got
very few female superheroes that are dominating films these days, unless
they’re in a skin tight outfit and their boobs are pushed up to their
chin, you know? And it’s not okay. It’s not.”
But a bare-chested Thor and Captain America are just fine? We’re talking SUPERHERO movies. Superheros are, by nature, physical specimens who wear skin-tight outfits. It comes with the territory.
The sad thing is, I’m sure there’s a 100 really good fanfics out there that would make better series than the ones that have been put-forth. Wasn’t there a comic at one point that showed her kicking ass with the Justice League while she went around the modern world being gleeful and yet brutal with everything? “What are these high sandals! They are useless for walking, but perfect for weapons!” –that sort of thing. Commentary on modern life and its complete lunacy once inspected. I would watch that forever.
Personally, I would also adore a series, or an arc, or at least a Christmas Special, where Diana meets Thor and they go around smashing cups.
Diana: “Is this how you do this, then? In Greece, we smashed plates for celebration! You might just be tolerable, strong man of the Barbarous Northern Tribes. Or at least, your appetite.”
Diana: *grins and smashes plates on floor*
Diana Thor: “ANOTHER!”
…yeah, like that. ;D
Definitely Spider-Woman. I’m not just saying that because it’s my favorite character. I think she could really pull it off. And Kelley’s Wonder Woman was every bit as horrible people have claimed, and worse…
http://www.punchaholeinthesky.blogspot.com/2012/08/review-wonder-woman-tv-pilots-1967-1974.html
Wait…where are these bare-chested Thor and Captain America? I’m missing out here!
Well Jubilee is also Asian so that’d be a horrible fit for a whole other set of reasons…
She’d make a kickass Spider-Woman. Does Marvel Studios have the rights to her or is she under Sony’s umbrella?
I would watch the shit out of that.
Did you see the movies?
What? I thought she was Native American! Damn, I need to reeducate myself on the X-verse. *hangs head in shame*
No.
Superhero costumes show men as boys aspire to be (strong, powerful), and women as the girls that boys would like to ogle (purely designed for sexiness). That is a DOUBLE STANDARD. It sucks.
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/21/she-has-no-head-no-its-not-equal/
There’s a great comic about this out there somewhere, but I think I’ve misplaced it.
Nonsense. Thor, Captain America, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Batman, Spider-Man, all the Hulk movies, Wolverine, the upcoming Man of Steel (I could go on) ALL feature, at some point, the heroes shirtless.
As for the costumes? Other than Iron Man and Batman, they’re all pretty skin tight. That seems to be a-okay for men, but when a female hero dons a skin tight outfit it’s misogynistic? THAT’S the double standard.
Do Thor and Cap fight their battles bare-chested?
Yeah but they weren’t in battle bare chested. Captain America was topless during the experiment but that was for science!
2 seconds of Captain America and Thor being shirtless as civilians isn’t the same as them having costumes that feature them topless.
Male superheroes being cheesecaked the way female superheroes are would be every male superhero dressed like Prince Namor (BEFORE he joined the X-Men). That Wonder Woman outfit must have been made with Wonder Tape for her to run in it.
So unless in the sequel, Thor’s getting a zipper down through his breastplate and showing his man cleavage, that’s a false equivalency.
Yeah, they’re featured topless at SOME point, Then they change into an outfit that covers them head to toe or a sensible shirt and pants for the rest of the movie.
Women wear superheroine outfits with boob-socks, tube tops, zippers down the front (because bullets aren’t a concern, apparently), and pants that inexplicably separate each ass cheek. As their costumes. For the entire movie.
But hey, give them all the dudes a zipper where I can see as much man cleavage as I can for Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Power Girl, and Black Widow while in the heat of battle, then we’ll be even.
Right. I can’t even with that excuse. Women are shown in sexy outfits through the male gaze. Wonder Woman often gets treated as the sexy female on the team. She’s written male gaze. It is embarassing. And guess what? The current treatment of her in the freaking Justice League book is part of that male gaze embarrassment. It’s always about making her alluring to men. But don’t worry…she gets to punch stuff so it’s ok! Except it’s not. Because she’s only allowed to be strong if she turns the men on first. It’s gross.
Jubilee is Chinese-American. Her codename itself is supposed to be a pun since her last name is Lee. It’s an easy mistake to make because unfortunately a LOT of artists and colorists make her look like a white woman with blue eyes for some reason.
all topless thor 2: sif for me, thor for her.
I’d love to see Barda. But minus the cape. I’m pretty anti-cape, and hers is so large it’s GOT to be a hindrance.
I’ll acknowledge that Wonder Woman’s outfit is pretty ridiculous. I think that’s THE big stumbling block from trying to move her from comics to movies or TV. You keep the outfit, the actress is going to look silly. You lose it and she’s really not Wonder Woman anymore. So what do you do?
I agree, but that doesn’t mean that chris evans topless isn’t designed to appeal to women and gay men.
Turn it into a porno while we’re at it lol! *insert Thor’s hammer joke here*
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luan4hXgBa1qkh5fxo1_500.jpg
Maybe if he was the only male in a predominately female cast in a movie aimed at women, yeah.
“Appears once bare chested” is very different from “has an exploitative costume”. When Thor has a stomach cutout down to his happy trail and Cap has a bikini and high heels for armor, then I’ll come back and talk to you about the rest of the institutionalized wrong you’re defending.
Lol! Reminds me of Dr. Horrible.
Perfect human being.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/newwwcostume1.jpg
I think you could Xena-fy it. In that regard, modern throwbacks to WW’s Amazon roots make it a bit more accurate and far less sexualized. She’s got a breastplate, maybe with the W across the chest, but it’s an actual breastplate, not a tube top. Xena’s was a corset/tube top, but I think you have room to make it sensible and suspended by actual straps.
You can do the pants, which I never minded, personally (provided they’re not those sparkly latex things in the pilot) or you can do the actual pteruges (like said modern throwbacks), instead of hot pants.
And I think that all makes sense because she’s always a warrior. I don’t think she’s interpreted in a sexual way the way Catwoman is supposed to be (even though artists sexualize the hell out of her anyway) and I think that a uniform that reflects that is acceptable to an audience.
Not all women have sexy outfits to please the male gaze. What about all the women who choose to cosplay in those sexy costumes? I don’t think you can generalize every sexy outfit down to the male gaze. There ARE women who like to dress sexy/skimpy. Sometimes it’s about self-love or pride, which is healthy.
That being said, Wonder Woman is not a sexy character. She grew up without all the social stigmas of girly femininity. I hate it when her costume is drawn too small. Chiang draws it right – no plunging back or thong. It can be adapted in a practical way.
You are so correct, I mean there’s no difference between Wonder Woman’s costume that completely shows off both her bare legs as well as her shoulders, arms and chest and Superman’s, who simply wears a red speedo that shows off his bare legs as well as his exposed arms and che…wait, Superman is covered completely except for his head and hands? Oh, and so is Batman, Spiderman, Captain American, and pretty much every male hero ever? Hmm. HMMMMMMM.
I guess there’s that sexy, sexy Hulk that shows off an equal amount of skin, and we all know what a total object of lust that hunk of green is. Totally exactly the same as all the female characters fighting crime in skimpy swimsuits. No difference. At all.
Well, you can change it as in the X-Men movies and make a joke about it.
This is what I thought of the WW pilot.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/michael-sacal/i-just-saw-the-wonder-woman-pilot-and-here-are-my-thoughts-on-it/10150262230579774
I’d be in favor of them altering the costume to make it look more armored or at least something that looks more like something a warrior would wear. I’m not terribly invested in the practicality argument (because realistically most of these people wouldn’t be wearing masks or capes to begin with, (*Insert Incredibles “No capes!” scene*) but Alexander makes some great points here about the skintight outfits.
It makes sense for someone like Black Widow, but not every heroine is Black Widow.
Spider-Woman has no relationship with Spider-Man so I doubt Sony bought the rights for her. The problem might be that the character isn’t popular to get its own film.
Of course, I say that while there’s a Guardians of the Galaxy movie in production…
Anyway, Spider-Woman is british so she’s gonna have to work on her accent.
The rights are very weird so I’m not sure if it’s so simple. Fox apparently is able to use Madame Hydra in the next Wolverine film even though she’s primarily a Captain America foe and originated in his book. So I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as “She’s not technically related to him as a character”.
I’d like to see her as Rogue. Never liked Anna Paquin in the role – she always seemed too young to me.
She’d probably make a pretty great Lois Lane too.
What about Kitty Pryde? The new X-Men film is coming out and there’s got to be an adult Kitty Pryde in Future effing Past, right? HER. Not, please, PLEASE, Ellen Page. Or Paige. …Page? I’m not looking it up right now. My phone is a jerk.
Much of the marketing of arrow has been about the star’s body appearance.
Of course this all goes back to a much broader problem, which is that there are generally very few superheroes in the movies right now who aren’t white males. It’s what, War Machine and Black Widow over at Marvel? And then the Falcon and POSSIBLY Rescue in the works? So until there’s a greater diversity (in both gender and race) of superheroes being offered by Hollywood we’re gonna keep having these probems.
Aw but I like Ellen Page Paige Page =(
Cosplaying is a costume designed to please the male gaze doesn’t make the male gaze irrelevant to the creation of said costume. This does not mean that a woman wearing one of these costumes is herself trying to appeal to men.
“No capes!”
OMG yes! She has very similar features to the Lois of the 90′s animated series.
Me too, but as Kitty? : /
Alias, Buffy, Dark Angel… all great shows with ass-kicking females. Why? Because the bad-ass came before the sexy. In all three shows you see the FMC in everything from business suits to sexy leather to evening gowns – because women like to have a large wardrobe, duh – but all three women kick ass and get the job done and have interesting characters that women want to emulate. Let’s see that happen with Wonder Woman! Come on!
I just like her in everything. I have such a girl crush on her ^_^
Sigh…well, maybe if she’s not wearing the matrix uniform. I just pictured someone that could be a bit more rugged. She doesn’t strike me as action hero material. I realize I’m being prejudiced, but I think it’s the height thing…and yet Tom Cruise pulls it off. Maybe it’s more about angles. If they hadn’t spend a decade building her up as a pixie, maybe a few Dutch angles would convince me that she’s taller than she actually is. Or maybe I’m still mad about Hard Candy.
So would I!
Me too!
She couldn’t play Jubilee or X-23 because she’s neither Chinese nor Native, and there’s been enough whitewashing as it is.
And frankly, I don’t blame her one bit for her reluctance in wanting to play Wonder Woman. It would have to be a really awesome script, the kind that’s written with the same amount of love and respect that other Superhero movies like the Marvel movies have been done with over the past few years.
And it’s not like Wonder Woman’s been the only one to receive that treatment. Hell, look at the crappy design for Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises. As awesome as Anne Hathaway was as Selina Kyle, and she damned well stole the movie, the fact that they 1. Never ONCE called her Catwoman, denying her any superhero identity and 2. stuck her in those stupid ass high heeled steak knife boots despite how ultra-hardcore realistic Christopher Nolan was trying to make those movies just undermined her character.
It’s like there had to be a catch to how awesome and competent they made Selina Kyle, hence the ultra-stupid steak knife high heels…
Hm… I’ve always seen Kitty Pryde represented as a kid in any of the X-mens I’ve come across. Being in Ireland I never had a decent source of comic books so I had to rely on the TV and movie versions.
It’s actually insane how tiny Ellen Paige is. I saw her on a live talk show before and she looked smaller on that than in any of her movies. On saying that, I’d like to see her in a role that isn’t chosen for her because of her height. Not all adults are 6 feet tall. =P
Oh wow, false equivalence much…?
Yeah, it sure as hell didn’t take too damn long for someone to come along and derail this topic with a “What abouts the men?!” counter-argument.
It was actually the lack of cowl that bugged the crap out of me the most =/
Sorry, physical strength/muscled was never something I aspired to, was never a “male power fantasy,” which is a generalization. Physically powerful or athletic people or people in power/authority were bullies to me as a kid. My fictional role models were people, men and women, who were intelligent, witty, thoughtful, compassionate, gentle. Desiring power is what villains do.
You’re confusing false equivalency with actual equivalency.
It’s not that weird: the studios picked and chose whatever character they wanted and negociated a price. Madame Hydra can be in Wolverine because Fox wanted to use the character and since I don’t think any studio own the right to Captain America at the time of purchase, she was available.
The reason I think Sony doesn’t own the rights to SW is that I don’t think there is any reason for them to spend money for that character.
Well now I like her even more.
It’s sad, because she’s a fantastic actress who GETS it, y’know. And she LOOKS like the perfect Diana. She’s beautiful, yes, but she also just radiates a certain strength that Wonder Woman should have. She would be amazing as Diana.
Not this boy. Sorry, but physical strength/muscled was never something I aspired to, was
never a “male power fantasy,”for me, which is a generalization, anyway. Physically
powerful or athletic people or people in power/authority were bullies to
me as a kid. My fictional role models were people, men and women, who
were intelligent, witty, thoughtful, compassionate, gentle. Desiring
power is what villains do.
Oh yes. Both of those. I love both of those characters so much and she would be so good as either of them!
Well, there was her stint as Kitty Pryde: Agent of SHIELD…
…OMG. CROSSOVER!!!
The sad thing is, even when it’s not pushed for the male gaze, people assume that’s what the character is there for.
Take Black Widow. Yup, wearing skin tight stuff, that’s true. But so were Cap and Hawkeye. Bruce got naked. Thor and Clint gave us arm porn, and Tony supplied the bedroom eyes. Cap is introduced through a close-up shot on his flexing bum.
But that’s not their defining characteristic in the movie. And Natasha being sexy isn’t HER defining characteristic in the context of the movie either. We don’t get blatant “male gaze” shots for her that override her actual character.
But when, say, SNL does it’s Avengers parody, they mock Widow for being The Sexy One, instead of The Serious One or the Professional or any other thing they could’ve exaggerated as a joke. Because if there’s a pretty lady in a superhero costume on film, we all know she’s there to be the eye candy.
My respect for Jaimie Alexander just went up tenfold.
The same could be said for a lot of superhero/villain outfits. Very few of them can go exactly from the comic page to the movie screen as they are and not look completely stupid. The best thing to do, really, is to rely on color/pattern cues that the public already associates with the character in question. (Like Bruce wearing the purple shirt instead of somehow acquiring purple pants. Or one of my favorites–Doc Ock’s muted brown-and-olive clothes being a call-back to his ridiculous villainous-secondary-colors get-up of orange and green.)
Certainly don’t put her in a bathing suit. Heck, give her a Roman-style skirt thing, one that looks like old-fashioned armor. Make it blue, give it silver studs/stars. It’s entirely possibly to make what she wears look more like Greco-Roman armor (or whatever the general public thinks that is) than a thong.
for “reasons”
Agree that is dumb when specific artists alter Diana’s costume to look more like lingerie, but I don’t see a problem with bared skin for some of her costumes (shouldn’t most heroes have a few different outfits for different occasions?). If they made it look more like athletic gear, it wouldn’t be pandering. Go look at what female summer Olympians wear, or this image of female Roman athletes (the legendary Amazons were probably Sarmatian, but this is closer in era): http://www.historywiz.com/galleries/gym.htm
I would also agree there should balance, that there should be some male characters baring equal amounts of skin.
Well, there was a movie that had supermen designed to be sexy…..it was called….Batman and Robin….that sure went over well…..
I really got nothing against the skin tight clothes. Personally, when I read a comic, I don’t mind female superheroes with revealing costumes (Sometimes, that type of artistic freedom can really set the mood of the story), yet what I do find offensive are the poses. I mean, the male characters are posed showing strength and independence, yet the female characters are posed in a sexually suggestive way simply for the male audience of the story. It’s total cheese cake. I think we can agree that it’s okay to look at attractive characters and want to see them look attractive. I mean, you can totally have an interesting super heroine character even if she wears a skimpy super suit, but it gets pretty horrible when the only reason for the female character is to please the male audience and that’s it.
Here (you have to go back to the 70′s and 80′s):
http://tinyurl.com/powermanironfist
and
http://tinyurl.com/powermanironfist2
Ditto. And Anna Paquin never seemed *nearly* sassy enough to me.
This is what historically accurate for a Scythian or Sarmatian woman warrior would look like: http://www.csen.org/WomenWarriors/ww.issyk.pr.html
But iconic imagery is more important to superheroes/comic book characters than realism.
I always thought Eliza Dushku would make an awesome Rogue, especially after seeing that grey streak they put in her hair in Dollhouse.
Of course, her character’d have to be rewritten as a sassy woman from Boston instead of the Bayou, but I could live with it.
Power Man and Iron Fist did, before male creators/readers became conservative.
Wait, isn’t X-23 cloned from Wolverine? He’s not First Nations, so she wouldn’t be either.
A woman choosing to show her body is vastly different from the reality of a male dominant industry that operates from the male gaze viewpoint in a sexist culture.
I like dressing sexy sometimes too. But I’m I’m control of the choice which is not at all the same thing here.
I think that’s if you decide to take it from the theory of Scythian or Srmatian women being the true inspiration for the Amazon legends. You could also pull from the mythological depictions in historical artifacts and come up with something that retains the iconography of her costume:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Amazon_trousers_BM_VaseB673.jpg
I think iron Fist is debatable. It’s still a part of his costume to this day, but really it’s just there to show off his chest markings.
I think the only character who fits the bill (and still fits the bill) is Namor. He went from speedo-wearer to upon pseudo-vest wearer (but with pants) within the past decade.
Too bad they gave Luke Cage a regular t-shirt. :/
The bigger problem for Jaime Alexander in playing Jubilee is that she’s not Asian. They whitewashed her for that awful tv movie years ago but given the dearth of quality parts for Asian American actresses, particularly in action films, that’s something you’d want to avoid.
From what I’ve heard the David Kelley Wonder Woman pilot was an abomination, but I’m not sure Alexander’s idea for the character works much better. They’ve tried Diana as a secret agent before and I don’t think it works very well. I was a huge fan of at least the first couple of seasons of Alias but that’s not Wonder Woman to me (and I should also point out that Sydney Bristow spent a fair amount of time weeping on that show too. After all JJ Abrams logline for the show was “What if Felicity worked for the CIA”)
But I think there’s a lot of problems in developing a Wonder Woman property for live action. I looked on IMDB and while there’s a lot of Wonder Woman credits out there it seems that just about all of them since Lynda Carter have either been animated, video games, or satirical. “Serious” live action portrayals of Diana are few and far between. And part of that IS the costume. All of these superhero movies have had the issue of translating costumes, which were designed for the drawn medium of comics, to live action. Spider-man was pretty much faithful to the comics version. Captain America went the Ultimates route and made his outfit a bit more militarized. Xmen just junked the existing costumes altogether (except for Storms which, by coincidence came out fairly close to her early 90s costume). But I think these problems are especially acute for Wonder Woman. The costume is one of the most iconic super hero costumes ever and would be instantly recognizable to much of the public. But it’s also a profoundly silly costume, especially in terms of something an actual actress would have to wear. But her story is also much fuzzier than some of the other heroes. While we all have some idea of the story and setting of Batman there’s less on Wonder Woman. She’s not tied to a particular fictional city, her rogues gallery isn’t as established as Batman or Superman, her story is vaguer except in that she comes from Paradise Island. Batman is motivated by the death of his parents, but what makes Wonder Woman do what she does? She’s got the romance with Steve Trevor, but what’s the obstacle there? With Superman it’s that Lois likes the dynamic Superman but Clark wants to like him for his mild mannered civilian identity. With Wonder Woman what’s the problem? Superman’s about being the ultimate boy scout. Batman is about being the tortured urban avenger. What’ the hook for Wonder Woman? I think these problems are present in the comics too. Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of “The Big Three” but she’s clearly of lesser status than Batman or Superman. While those two have spawned whole lines built off of them Wonder Woman hasn’t. While they’ve been in continuous publication since their first appearance, Wonder Woman hasn’t. Some of this is attributable to sexism among the comics reading public, but I think some of this is due to the less defined nature of her character. While Batman and Superman remain somewhat constant in premise, Wonder Woman always seems to lurch from concept to concept as new creators take over her title.
That’s why I think that Amazon might stand the best chance of actually bringing Diana to the screen in a workable way. By focusing on a younger pre-Wonder Woman Diana they can avoid some of the problems her concept presents. Another solution might be similar to what Captain America did where they embraced the cheese. That movie reminded me a lot of Johnston’s earlier movie The Rocketeer in that it presented a stylized portrait of the 40s wherein the cartoony aspects of Cap’s character seemed to make perfect sense. I think you could do a similar thing with Wonder Woman in WWII just arriving in “Man’s World”.
No. About the only male hero who regularly does is Namor (although his more recent costumes cover up his chest more). I read a discussion of skimpy costumes somewhere where he was used as an example of it from the male perspective and the author pointed out that his costume makes sense because 1) he’s underwater much of the time and 2) Namor seems like the kind of guy who would want everyone to see his body all the time.
Well Barda isn’t pining away for him cause she got him. They’re married. But she does throw away her life on Apocalypse, including a leadership position with the Female Furies, because she falls in love with him.
It’s not different if the designs are identical because that proves there is no inherent sexist quality within the design. The male/female gaze has been challenged in contemporary feminism. Calling complex cultures sexist is also a generalization that should be challenged. The comic book industry specifically the big 2 are not sexist by definition. They are guilty of inequality for a variety of reasons, but that’s not enough to label them as sexist.
There is a huge gulf of difference between an artist creating and designing a sexified Wonder Woman and someone else choosing to take on that costume for cosplay. I’m pretty sure that’s because the latter has what we call agency and the former is literally an object created to elicit desire from the male gaze.
Also just because a woman chooses to wear a sexy cosplay outfit does not strip the sexist and patriarchal origins away from that outfit. She may be doing it to enjoy herself for various reasons, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is enjoying herself with a problematic patriarchal paradigm.
There is a huge gulf of difference between an artist creating and designing a sexified Wonder Woman and someone else choosing to take on that costume for cosplay. I’m pretty sure that’s because the latter has what we call agency and the former is literally an object created to elicit desire from the male gaze.
Also just because a woman chooses to wear a sexy cosplay outfit does not strip the sexist and patriarchal origins away from that outfit. She may be doing it to enjoy herself for various reasons, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is enjoying herself with a problematic patriarchal paradigm.
As much as I love Natalie Portman, I honestly think I’d enjoy seeing a bit more Sif this time around. I know I’ve fallen in love with this actress. She’s always so chipper and up beat in interviews, she makes me smile.
…”but at least make her grow a pair! I mean, I’m serious, ok.”
A pair of what? Boobs? I wasn’t aware Wonder Woman had none.
SERIOUSLY, I Feel for what she Basically Said, but I can never Understand why WOMEN Choose to use such Language that was Largely Pushed by Men about once again ‘Over-Glorifying’ Male Genitalia.
Which, whaddaya know, brought us into this Particular Predicament. *Rolls Eyes*
So, for the record…it WOULD be okay to have the heroine in a skintight outfight, as long as it’s mostly to show she has enough muscle mass to beat a Buick in a fistfight?
Hmmm…I actually think I could make that work…
I think this movie will need a topless girl in it, to attract male audience members.
yeah, because you can’t see each ab muscle on superman.
its a fictional character drawn with exagerated anatomy. exaggerated
I disagree, I think if wonder woman wore a pair of pants, not only would that be more dignified, but just to piss off ultra pc types, I’d like to say a lot sexier in a pair of tight leather pants.
Lol! Daire O Briain made a skit of that in his latest stand up. He calls it the “something for the dads” and scoffs at the idea that men can’t concentrate on anything unless it makes them horny. It was excellent, I never laughed so hard.
Because policing other women’s language makes you feel superior? And not another tool who thinks women need to be perfect all the time or our opinion does not count…
No, I don’t feel Superior, Jaimie obviously cares about Women’s Issues. I’m asking women who say they Believe such things should really think about the Everyday Sexism they Help to Perpetrate. Subliminal Messages get Passed Along Culture to keep Society in Line and since we Live in a Patriarchy, Everyday Sayings are Laced with the Superiority of Male-Anything, Especially, of the Male Genitalia.
I Try to Not just Talk/Write before Thinking and Research the History or Source Behind such Popular Words Phrases. I’ve Noticed what “Grow a Pair” Meant not because of some “Urban Dictionary (Most of the Definitions are about Testicles, I’m Assuming that’s where it Came from Originally, but try to ‘Prove’ me wrong, if you can. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=grow%20a%20pair ),” but by the Context and the way the Phrase is Used by People. Are you going to tell me “Grow a Pair” wasn’t started by men about “Testicles?” And somehow in the Context of people aren’t Appreciative of Female Heroes, saying women should “Grow a Pair” is really going to give us Respect as FEMALES?
And if the entire industry centered on selling their stuff to twentysomething white heterosexual women, sure. And women had social power. And men had to worry about being raped and objectified on a daily basis.
And her first name is Jubilation. That is… Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Lee were hippies.
Agreed.
New OTP? Possibly.
I know right? Like they have not enough white characters to draw, they still have to make the Asian character look as white as possible.
It’s a very fine line. The problem is that many times the woman wearing the outfit (in Wonder Woman’s case a strapless bathing suit) is usually the lone woman on a team of men. It’s very easy for it to get exploitative and gross very quickly.
It’s funny because her comment actually lines up pretty closely with something Amy Adams said a few months back. Amy basically said that while she wasn’t taking a shot at the sexy superhero costumes that she thought it was vital that women saw women in superhero films who weren’t wearing sexy costumes and were saving the world, in part, through just being a regular woman outside of that sexy image. She was basically saying that she thought Lois Lane was vital, in part, because she becomes a hero through her job and isn’t presented as a sex object. I’d say Amy and Jaime probably agree on alot of things in this regard.
I don’t think the problem is Wonder Woman as a concept. I think the problem is that DC Comics has refused to take steps to actually putting Diana’s franchise in a position where she is marketable.
You mention Diana’s supporting cast. Yes, that’s huge. You are correct that Superman and Batman both have deeply developed worlds of their own that people identify with. Lois Lane has been the co-headliner of her own TV show several times over with Superman at this point. Their relationship is cemented publicly because for decades now we’ve seen it play out in different ways over and over again. We feel like we know how they should be portrayed before we even see them on screen because we know them at this point.
Wonder Woman has never had that luxury and part of the reason is because DC treats her like a second class citizen. They don’t take time to develop her own supporting cast—they treat her as a supporting player in someone else’s story.
The new 52 was one step forward, two steps back in that regard. Brian Azzarello took steps to really focus on Wonder Woman and give her her OWN story but in doing so he also gutted many of the most feminist elements of the story. Diana is a member of the team on Justice League but DC also has her stuck in this awful relationship with Superman as opposed to taking the time to actually DEVELOP her own narrative with Steve Trevor and Etta Candy and giving her her OWN narrative that can become iconic on her own and isn’t tied to another male hero.
So there are lots of problems here that contribute to the issue you are talking about. I agree with you that Amazon might be a chance for this to finally change. It MIGHT be. But, as per usual, when it comes to Wonder Woman, she’s seen as a sex object first to DC Comics and a hero in her own right second.
Of course he does but you are missing the point. First off, Chris Evans had his shirt off for like 30 seconds in that movie. After that point, he then was clothed and covered for the rest of the film and not sexualized at all.
Third, that movie was run by men. The men were in CONTROL of the imagery.
Do you not get how different it is for women in male dominated industries where their very relevance and livelihood is often dependent on what a MAN Tells them to do and how to present themselves. It’s about control.
I teach contemporary feminism at a major University so I’m well aware of the conversations that take place in this regard. I’m paid to know it and I’m well educated on the subject.
The reality is that even in the year 2013 American culture is steeped in troubling gender commentary and sexism (and racism) that is so “normal” to us now that we don’t even know that we are perpetuating it half the time. We are so conditioned to the inequality that we don’t even see it half the time. It does not make it any less damaging or real.
Do I think there is an inherent sexism to the costume that MARSTON developed for Diana? No, I don’t. But then again, the costume that Diana currently wears in the comics is NOT the costume that Marston envisioned for her and he’d probably role over in his grave if he saw the way she was drawn and portrayed these days.
Is the Big 2 sexist? They absolutely are. They operate in a male dominant industry and often incorporate everyday sexism that goes unnoticed and/or is brushed off and/or is just considered “not worth their concern” on a regular basis in their storytelling choices, their art and the way they hire within their company.
yes, I do ‘get’ that.
and I am not missing the point. I am engaging on a different point.